Spangler, Lowe & Hart finally got around to issuing their statement. According to the AJC:
In a four-page statement, City Council members Bob Spangler, Ed Lowe and Tom Hart said there were three to four Police Department bank accounts that were “outside the city’s normal financial controls,” with more than $460,000 in unapproved expenditures.
The council members provided no documentation of their allegations and did not accuse King of anything illegal. But they said that because of the problems “we are convinced that Chief King should no longer manage the Doraville
Their spokesman makes a big deal about how there are no allegations of impropriety being made here, and the whole thing smells like the councilmen are grasping at straws. Especially when I read this:
Some of the issues outlined in the statement came to light only after the council members ousted King, according to their attorney, Wendell Willard. Willard told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution that the council members didn’t raise the financial and management concerns themselves. Willard said he discovered it by probing bank account statements and through a conversation with the city auditor.
They didn’t even know about this until after they tried to fire the chief?!? I didn’t think they could make this whole situation smell even more like BS, but somehow the Doraville 3 managed it.
Here’s a video from Channel 11 about the council members’ statements and the chief’s response
Willard probably gave them the little morsel about the absolutely legal accounts for seized funds.
Willard is the city attorney for Sandy Springs and a state representative!
http://www.sandyspringsga.org/tPanel.aspx?P=FC87BC524D7B49E3B5E0ADF34D853BC5
“Ga. State Rep. Wendell Willard (R-Sandy Springs) is the city attorney for Sandy Springs.
Willard represents the 40th District in the Georgia House of Representatives, and was appointed chairman of the House Civil Judiciary Committee. He is also working with the Georgia Conservancy and Georgia Conservation Voters on a bipartisan, conservation caucus.”
Reading the statement in full is interesting.
http://www.doraville-ga.com/spangler_hart_lowe_statement_8_21_07.pdf
Aren’t they supposed to explain their “reasons” for terminating the Chief at the August 6th meeting? But now they say this info was discovered after the 6th? So their reasons on the 6th were…???
And if anyone is curious, O.C.G.A. 16-13-49 governs asset forfeiture within the state of Georgia. The money has very limited use and is generally only to be used for law enforcement activities. The statute also states that it is to be spent at the discretion of the Chief of the police department.
[...] Joseph G. at Dora-blog, responding to a statement by three Doraville city councilmen explaining why they fired the [...]
So their beef with King is that they cannot legally fire him for his time away during Iraq, and that he legally has an account they can’t touch? It’s time for them to quit while they’re behind.
I’ll put this question here, since it concerns the subject of this post, and I don’t have enough information yet to make a real blog entry about it. But I’m curious about Mr. Spangler’s open records request to the police department: What on earth could he have asked them for that would have cost $21,000? I recently got a video from them on an unrelated matter, and it was overpriced, but only $70, if I recall correctly.
Rich – many people have wondered why the charge to Spangler was so excessive in light of the fact that rumor has it that other requests made by other individuals – not City employees – was given to them free. I think your question is a very good one and you are not the only one wondering.
I’m not saying it was excessive, since I don’t know what he was asking for. Mr. King’s response addressed this issue, and said that the request would have cost anyone who asked for it over $20,000.
Well since no one knows what he asked for we have no way of knowing whether it would have or would not have. Understand I am not being belligerent with you and apologize if it comes across that way – but I cannot imagine anything that would cost that much. My goodness, we used to have to pay for volumes and volumes of depositions in huge court cases and never had a bill for over $2,000 and that was paying for the original and a copy of depositions that were five and six volumes at about 300 pages or more per volume.
Eleanor, I don’t want you to feel “antagonized” again, but you are obviously talking from a defective memory or you’re speaking about 1970.
As far as the charges for the records from D-PD, no, we don’t know what he asked for, but to get to that kind of rate, I think it’s safe to presume that Spangler asked for records in a very broad category and covering a large time span.
POST currently charges $15/hr. (for over 15 minutes research) and $.25 per page for records production.
P.S. And if the chief quoted something astrominally outside that rate — say, over $40/hr. — then there could be room for complaining.
His attorney is basically stating that it’s the same rate as would be charged to us ordinary citizens. If somebody can say with certainty (and point to the source) that that isn’t correct, then we can say “for shame.”
Found this from the office of the State Attorney General:
“9. How much can I be charged for a record obtained through the Open Records Act?
A public agency must use the most economical means available for providing copies of a public record. This means that records maintained by computer shall be made available where practicable by electronic means, including Internet access (subject to reasonable security restrictions preventing access to nonrequested or nonavailable records.) A record’s custodian can collect a reasonable fee for the search, retrieval and other direct administrative costs for complying with an Open Records request. The hourly charge for these costs cannot exceed the salary of the lowest paid full-time employee who, in the discretion of the custodian, has the necessary skill and training to perform the request. No charge can be made for the first 15 minutes of these actions. When copies are provided, an agency may charge a uniform copying charge not to exceed 25 cents a page.”
If things like phone recordings and/or video were requested, that would indeed be very costly to provide if the request was broad in nature.
Interested Observer I am speaking of what we paid in the late 90′s and early 2000′s – not the 70′s. I was the one in the office who had to go over every bill submitted for payment. Of course if a video deposition was ordered the cost was more since a video was also obtained along with a transcribed copy of the deposition but certainly not that expensive. Like I said above, I don’t know what was asked for but $20,000 sounds quite high irregardless of what it was. And no my memory is not defective.
Since this looks like it’s headed to court (on our dime), I doubt that the chief would have fudged the numbers. That also means that it will probably get entered as evidence. Most likely, Spangler made some ridiculous request, like wanting all of the video tape recorded by the police in 2006.
Yeah, exactly what I was thinking Joseph.
When I picked up my request, I asked what would make a request very expense. Without giving any specifics as to anyone’s requests, Sgt. Lopez said that generally the most expensive requests are very broad requests for emails that cover a large span of time. The emails have to be pulled off the storage server by an IT guy, but then each individual email must be read by staff to redact information that is not public and not subject to open records law. For example, social security numbers, dates of birth, the names of a police officer’s family members, etc. For each item redacted, they have to make a note to the side of what type of info was marked out. Then…re-copy those pages. With a large request, that’s a lot of staff time. Also, when requesting incident reports that are more than a few years old (pre-computer records), unless you know a specific date range an incident may have occurred, a staff member has to search each log book manually for an entry. Then pull the record.
Also, she indicated that anyone can make an open records request of someone else’s open records request…i.e. anyone can request a copy of the Spangler’s request and also for a copy of the estimate.
Makes sense Karen.
So did you request a copy of the request?
Or the estimate?
There ya go, Karen! Thanks for explaining what the details could very well encompass.
And thanks to you, Joseph. A reasonable person would have to say that what you say about the chief’s numbers is absolutely to be expected. Anything else would be seriously asking for trouble.
And sorry, Eleanor, your memory is now even more defective in my book if you’re talking about the ’90s and into the 2000′s.
I didn’t. It was late in the day and figured someone else could do it. My 54-page easily accessible audit was $19.85. Sgt. Lopez has a really good form she will send you first, it outlines estimated staff time x hourly rate, estimated number of pages x. .25, etc.
Interested Observer – why are you afraid to reveal your name? My mind is not defective; I know what I saw and I know what was approved for payment. Therefore, unless you saw the bills and what was paid – not only is your mind defective but you don’t even know what you are talking about. Your continued insults, under an anonymous name, clearly shows you don’t know what you are talking about.
I think I will stand next to Interested Observer……
That figures – you both want to hide behind revealing your real names and love to think you know everything about stuff you weren’t involved in. Unless you were sitting there in my chair reviewing the bills then you have no clue what you are even talking about. But it is easier to believe in your minds you know everything there is to know about everything in life. All I can do is sit here and laugh and laugh some more cause you just don’t get it. You have to insult, insinuate and assume under alias names. Must be because your campaign managers told you to stay away from the blogs so you won’t use your names.
Actually, one thing I am positive of Eleanor is you have demonstrated over and over that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Are you blonde?
You epitomize the status quo in Doraville for the whole world to see.
And in a way, I’m gratful for that.
No I am not blonde and I certainly am not stupid. Maybe in your eyes – but quite frankly people who hid behind showing who they really are – without a legitimate excuse for doing so – truly does epitomize the status quo in Doraville and I too am grateful that you do. You see – just because you think you know everything does not make that so. If you truly do know everything there is to know then someone is leaking information to you. You see I don’t need leaks or anything else for me to make up my mind – I am my own person and not someone else’s puppet. I don’t need someone telling me what to post – I think for myself. And quite frankly – I really don’t care what you think of me.
OK, for the record.
I’m not running for a political office in Doraville or any other city, state or country.
I have no affiliation with any candidate who is running for office in Doraville or Georgia for that matter.
And I have no link what so ever with the Doraville Police Department or Doraville City Hall.
But, I am a reasonably intelligent person who bases my opinions on facts, not blindsighted gossip. loyality or enuendo.
We have laws, codes and ordinances everyone has to follow. If someone in city government does not follow the law, codes or ordinances, there is something wrong. And obviously, some of the city councilmen are oblivious to the law, ordinances and codes or, even worse, they could care less about them. Even if Chief King has some skeletons in his closet, the way the whole matter has been handled is disgraceful. Firing someone without no written proof or documentation? That’s stupid. Obviously, the three councilmen have absolutely no idea what they are doing!! And Doraville may suffer financial repercussions from it. Thinking they should be warrented special privilages. Well, you know what? These people are dead wrong because they are civil servants funded by the tax payer.
So I will state this fact again for the last time. Eleanor, you have no idea what in the hell you are talking about. And again, that is 100% fact.
You are entitled to your opinion and if you go back over every post I made – I made absolutely no comment either way regarding this issue. I was not at the meeting and heard nothing first hand. My loyalty to someone because they are a friend has nothing to do with any of this. I have not discussed any of it with them simply because I chose not to. You have not seen me take one stand or say one thing against Chief King in any post I made. Not one word have I posted against him. When I spoke of costs, etc., I spoke from first hand knowledge – because that was my job responsibility. Furthermore – since Joseph asked that no profanity be used on this site – I will say to you – re-read what I have posted; point out where anyplace I have made any derogatory comments against Chief King, and I will say to you – you won’t find it and that is 100% fact. So you don’t know what the heck you are talking about either. And if you aren’t running for an office in Doraville, you sure got alot of people fooled because they sure think you are.
Ignorance is bliss I guess….
You should know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Eleanor, your last comment just illustrates why you’re so fun to tease . . .
The cost of transcripts paid for by your old firm really is not material to any of this discussion.
But since you used it to bolster your opinion that the $20K costs were “excessive” as you put it, and without knowing what was requested, I thought it legitimate fodder for disagreeing when I found at the very least your estimate of $2,000 for an original & 1 copy of 1500 to 1800 pages is a gross exaggeration, even in the ’90s. I don’t have to have sat at your desk to know that, nor do I intend to get drawn into a comparison of work credentials. Others are obviously free to agree with you or not.
And FWIW, I didn’t say your “mind” was defective.
SOSO, “for shame” for using the “H” word! LOL I almost did it myself. You took the heat, you brave soul.
I think we should all take a ride in an old Cadillac convertible one day and have some fun, only it’s just too blasted hot, and we should probably wait until fall!
Karen,
What makes a request so expensive is when your beloved,”doesn’t do anything wrong” police chief has an old army buddy come up from milledgville and charge the city $150.00 per hour to pull stuff off the computer for the request. Charging the city to help your buddy by a new fishing boat is what it sounds like. I guess King does a better job looking out for the finances of the city, or is he helping an old friend?
Really, in the end they all will probably get their fanny spanked and then it will be business as usual in Doraville.
Is all y’all’s air conditioning out? Cuz it feels dang hot in here….
Can we get back to the facts and quit hollerin’ over the fence?
Thanks.
There are few coincidences in life, and no coincidences in politics.
Consider the previously mentioned fact the State Rep. Willard is representing the Council taking on Chief King. Rep. Willard is one of the ‘quiet powers’ behind the City of Sandy Springs, and fervently supported the recently defeated Dunwoody incorporation.
Your own Jason A. was recruited by Sen. Dan Weber for the annexation, which sole purpose is to make a Dunwoody incorporation possible.
I am curious why these ‘hi-powered’ GA GOP’ers are taking such uncanny interest in YOUR city? ? ?
Look at the big picture– A Dunwoody incorporation, adjacent to Doraville makes for two north DeKalb cities.
Wake UP Doraville, the GM plant re-development may be behind the whole thing. That re-development represents a $1/2 to 1 BILLION dollar investment. No hope for the usual greed mongers to ‘get their slop at the trough’ with outstanding and upstanding leadership like Mayor Jenkins and Chief King controlling the reins.
FIGHT FOR DORAVILLE Sovereignty and VOTE NO to annexation.
Thank you very much, Vox!!!!!